Couples Counseling With a Narcissist

| Is there any Value in Going to Counseling with a Narcissist? |

Tina and I had visited my therapist together to figure out our best course to move forward on relationship counseling.

At the time, Tina appeared committed to repairing the critically damaged trust between us. Jeff, my therapist had asked her about why she had lied to me when she snuck off with Nate to spend three nights in his hotel room. She insisted that their relationship was platonic, and said at the time that she reasoned it was “easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.”

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That was a pretty significant mis-estimation.

Her narcissistic brain didn’t really grasp boundaries or consequences well. The truth was Tina simply felt that she could do anything she wished and whatever my objections may be were of little consequence. I’m sure she was supremely confident that I’d suffer endlessly, with minimal fuss for her. The idea that I might leave her probably never seriously crossed her mind.

Jeff had suggested that while we were sorting all that out, maybe it would be a good idea to put her friendship with Nate on hold. That seemed like the most obvious first step, to me. Tina didn’t commit to it, there and then, in Jeff’s office, but later raised it at home, as though it was her idea.

“I’m thinking I should stop talking to Nate for a while,” she told me when we were getting ready for bed that night.

“Well, you know, I wouldn’t ever ask you to cut him out of your life forever, but right now, I think that would be a good idea. We can’t afford to have disruptive, contentious or unsupportive people in our lives, right now. If we’re going to get through this, we need to surround ourselves with positivity and get rid of distractions that could divide us.”

Tina agreed. I felt optimistic. In fact, I felt supremely confident that our love would triumph over this temporary adversity and we’d come out of it stronger and wiser. I did not understand what forces I was contending with. I hadn’t even the faintest notion.

Ultimately, Jeff had recommended that Tina begin seeing a therapist of her own to deal with anxiety and depression. Tina urged for someone who was experienced in dealing with chemical dependency. Jeff felt he had the perfect match in mind and scheduled Tina a recurring appointment with Aljandro that coincided with my regular appointment with Jeff, so I could easily drive us both every week.

For relationship counseling, he recommended Adeline, who specialized in couples therapy. She was in demand and it would be a couple weeks before we could get in for our initial consultation with her.

Tina seemed initially excited about our path forward. I felt good about it, myself. “We’ll have advantages other couples don’t,” I mused aloud. “With both of us working independently on our own issues and the opportunity to check in regularly in couples counseling, I think we’ll be stronger than most anyone else.”

In retrospect, my thinking seemed delusional, but again, I did not understand the inexorable power of a personality disorder, or even that I was up against one.

The next morning, I needed to take my van into the shop for some work and it would be there a couple days. I was thinking about upgrading my vehicle, so I had rented a big fancy SUV to try it out while the van was at the garage. I still had ample time before I had to be to work after those errands. Still feeling good about the apparent turn for the better things had taken with Tina, a naughty idea struck – something I knew Tina would love.

“Thinking of you… I’m getting an idea… I have some time before my first run.” I texted Tina before I started back towards Farmington. ‘An idea’ was an inside joke between us meaning ‘an erection,’ since it only has one idea.

“My mother is here,” she texted back.

“Do you think you’d be up for a ‘nooner?’ Come out and fuck me in the back of this big ol’ Navigator?”

“Yeah! Yes,” she replied. “Give me a 10 minute warning.” She sent a few other misspelled and garbled messages.

“Flustered?” I teased and then set off to make haste back to the apartment. The clock was ticking.

From a stoplight at the outskirts of Farmington, I texted, “I’m about 10 minutes away. Don’t forget to bring a towel,” South Park references were a part of our personal language.

She sent back a series of emojis with hearts and kissy-lips.

Tina came out of the apartment looking giddy, a green canvas tote bag slung over her arm. “My mom knows. She gave me this look and asked me what I was up to,” she said as she climbed into the SUV.

We found a secluded spot to park and had a very passionate time in the back seat on the towel Tina produced from her tote.

I still needed to get to work and time was a pressing matter. I dropped Tina back off at the apartment, blushing and giggling.

We exchanged a series of silly, lovey-dovey messages while I worked. It was a really good day.

I got home from work in the evening and made my way down the bare, graffitied steps into the Farmington apartment. I sat at the bottom to take my dress shoes off. I could hear Tina’s voice coming from the bedroom. The door was closed and I couldn’t make out what she was saying, but it sounded like she was talking on the phone.

Tina’s voice became more distinct as I neared the door. I could hear her laughing heartily. “OK,” she said, mirth still in her voice, “Thank you for everything. Talk to you later. Bye.”

I opened the door and strolled into the room with a “Hello, my love.”

I pulled my tie off and hung it up. “Who were you laughing with?” I asked casually as I put my suit coat on a hanger. I had a suspicion, but hoped I was mistaken.

There was a long silence before Tina sheepishly replied, “Nate.”

I froze, still facing away from Tina, into the closet.

“I was talking to my Mom about it and she doesn’t think I should have to give up my friendship with Nate,” she went on to explain.

I didn’t look at her as I resumed stripping off my work clothes. I didn’t have anything ready to say, either.

“I have few enough friends as it is,” Tina continued.

My former optimism flagged. “Yesterday, we were in agreement on this. My therapist agrees. If we asked anyone on the street, they’d agree. After what happened, your continued contact with Nate is hugely detrimental to our relationship. What are you going to do if our couple’s counselor also agrees?”

“I don’t know,” Tina said. “I’ll evaluate her advice after I hear it.”

I couldn’t fathom how Tina could think this was anything close to OK. How could she possibly think that after being caught lying to sneak away to another man’s hotel room for three nights, she could just carry on seeing and talking to that guy unabated, and also keep her relationship with me in tact? I could not imagine that any sane person would see things her way, but Tina and her mom waged a gaslighting campaign to try to convince me that I was the one who was out of step on this. I let it drop for the nonce, hoping it could be settled in therapy.

August 10th, 2018 was the big day for our first consultation with Adeline. Tina had been staying at Amber’s, ostensibly to watch her pets while she was away attending the nuptials of her roommates. I picked Tina up there early that Friday afternoon. She seemed a bit sluggish and said she was nervous.

“Don’t be nervous,” I said enthusiastically. “Just remember we’re doing this because we love each other and our therapist only wants to help us. What’s to worry about? This will be a good thing.” I was painfully naive.

Adeline was a young black woman who came off immediately as a no-nonsense person who spoke plainly and with a blunt air of authority.

I started out, saying that we’d been having some difficulties, but that we both loved each other so much that we were willing to do anything to make it work between us.

“He’s my best friend,” Tina added. “I’ve never felt so close to anyone else before and he’s the only person whose company I never get tired of.”

I nodded and squeezed her hand reassuringly. My feelings mirrored that sentiment, exactly.

Conscious of how quickly an hour can go by, I tried to be efficient with our time and summarized events that led to us deciding to seek professional help.

“Whatever the actual details of Tina and Nate’s hotel stay, with all the lying and sneaking around, it feels like an affair to me,” I concluded.

“An emotional affair,” Tina added. She explained that she felt a lot of her troubles stemmed from her upbringing. “I think all the lying my mom used to make me do really screwed me up,” she said.

After hearing a bit of our story, Adeline said, “I think I can help you, but you both need to do exactly what I tell you,” she said. She explained her rules for couples therapy. Secrets were out. Open communication between the three of us was key.

Tina’s recent disappearing act with Nate was the primary reason that we were in counseling, so that was the first order of discussion.

“You can’t be talking to Nate anymore if this is going to work,” Adeline eventually told Tina.

“I don’t have many friends,” Tina said. “He’s been helping me with all of this. He’s my best friend,” Tina objected.

“I thought Dan was your best friend,” Adeline observed, “and that sounds like a self-esteem issue that you should start working on with your own therapist. You have an appointment with Aljandro coming up, right?”

“Well, Dan’s the one who almost cheated on me with his ex-wife,” Tina’s tone became defensive and I was fairly surprised to hear that come up. She was talking about an incident from the very beginning of our relationship, three years prior, that I considered long behind us.

“That was years ago,” I said. “I told you about it – it’s not like it was a secret and I took steps to remedy the situation.”

“OK, is this a tit for tat thing?” Adeline interjected.

Tina shook her head. “No,” she said rather quietly.

We discussed Tina’s other suitors. Besides Nate, there was Cassidy and Doug. Since both were former romantic interests and sex-partners, I had misgivings about discovering recent surreptitious communications between them and Tina.

“That’s another thing, though,” Tina interrupted, “I feel like I can’t have any privacy, because Dan was looking at my phone.”

“I am all about respecting your partner’s privacy,” Adeline began. Tina’s expression immediately looked more receptive, but “Adeline went on to say, “until something is done that betrays your trust, then all bets are off, because you have a right to know what’s going on. My husband and I don’t have any problem answering each other’s phones because we both know we don’t have anything to hide.”

I could tell Tina wasn’t happy with that statement. She was becoming more defensive and complained that I “wouldn’t let her” talk to her “friend,” Cassidy. She tried to make it out like I was controlling, but failed to mention that Cassidy was a former lover. I had to reiterate that detail. I’m hardly in the minority, being uncomfortable with my future wife buddying up with exes – especially when she was trying to hide it from me!

Tina made a few confused attempts at explaining her actions, but what may have seemed like righteous justification in her own mind completely fell apart when put into words.

At the end of the session, Adeline admonished us both, “No contact with any former boyfriends, girlfriends, ex-wives, sex partners or whatever. That includes on social media. Start with that and we’ll talk again in a week.” She looked over her calendar. “Is that how we’re doing this? Once a week?”

“Yes,” I said. We figured we’d start with weekly while we’re kind-of in crisis, and maybe go down to every other week or once a month once we’re on more stable ground.”

“That sounds like a good plan. I think that’s exactly how we should do it,” Adeline agreed.

Tina wasn’t very talkative after we’d left Adeline’s office. She was yawning a bit.

“What do you think?” I asked her.

“Well, Mrs. Adeline Taylor seems like a no-nonsense kind of person who will call you on your shit,” she said. “I guess that’s good.”

“I suppose it is,” I agreed.

On the way to the clinic, We’d passed by a little Italian sandwich and pizza joint Tina mentioned she was interested in trying sometime, so I stopped there on our way back to Amber’s. It was a sleepy, dim-lit restaurant with sticky, red and white checkered plastic tablecloths. It was a pretty old-school hole in the wall that made generously portioned, delicious, yet inexpensive hoagies.

We ate, mostly in silence, with Tina yawning more frequently and avoiding eye-contact. I thought it was pretty important we discuss our first counseling session, but Tina plainly wanted none of that.

We left, with Tina taking about 3/4 of her sandwich with her in a box and I dropped her back off at Amber’s to resume her pet-sitting duties and presumably, to take a nap. I was anxious and felt uncertain about the future.

At first, I wondered if a gentler approach from the no-nonsense Adeline might have produced better results, but after hearing the stories from so many other victims of narcissistic abuse, I realize there could be no good outcome from taking Tina to therapy.

Getting a narcissist into counseling is no small feat, because they generally don’t believe there is anything wrong with them. If they do go, it’s either to deal with problems other than a cluster B personality disorder, like depression and anxiety, or it’s simply a ploy.

It appears that couples counseling with a narcissist goes one of two ways. Therapists are only human, too and often, a clever, charming narcissist can win them over. Weaving tales of difficult childhoods or traumatic events can garner sympathy and a therapist may be used as narcissistic supply and can even end up being used to triangulate and help gaslight the narcissist’s victim. That outcome is frequently reported by survivors of narcissistic abuse.

The other way it goes is how it did with Tina. The therapist wasn’t won over and Tina was forced to confront the flaws in her internal justifications. She didn’t like it and ultimately rejected the entire endeavor. Overt narcissists might respond by raging when they get home after a session like that. They might swear, threaten, possibly even become violent. A more vulnerable, or “covert” narcissist like Tina would be more inclined to passive-aggressive retaliation or withdrawing into a silent treatment or ghosting – which is exactly what Tina did.

I spent the rest of the day fretting about our next steps. Fortunately, I had a task to complete that kept my mind occupied for a while and I got to work on replacing the side-view mirror on my van. That would help pass some time while I waited on word from Tina.

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  • Hi Dan, I’m sorry for the pain you went through…. in therapy my husband lied and said there was no affair on his part (there was, which I found later) and during the sessions when the counselor discussed my inhibitions or problems my now ex would join forces so that I actually had 2 therapists firing questions at me. I clammed up each time that happened and the counselor then wanted to see us each privately. During one of my private sessions he said that our personalities during the couple’s session were reversed during the private ones. In couple’s session I was quiet and fearful. In private I was strong and talkative, answered any question. In couple’s session he was bold and confident. In private he was meek and uncommunicative.
    After a year I discovered the cheating via an old cell phone and he admitted he was not on board so I called it quits. 4 years on my own now and I’m better but not healed from the abuse. Best wishes to you. Beth

  • Derek

    It’s amazing how much this is like my own cheating nex. She tried to twist therapy into making her the well-meaning victim and then attacking my faults, instead of dealing with why we were there: she was caught cheating and agreed to therapy to get off the hook.

  • Alex

    From the codep guy point of view, you describe both the best and the worst moments of life with a narc girl. Obviously we are in this game to maximize the number of “towelie” incidents. These mind blowing moments of triumph and power come at a price. Narc girls cheat. And it hurts.

    There are millions of stable nice girls we could get together with who never in a million years would cheat on us. Most men prefer these types of women. Codeps on the other hand prefer the intense crack highs they get from narc girls.

    The cheating tests our mantle every time. There is no pretending that it doesn’t crush us. Cheating is the inevitable flip side of those fantastic highs. So the goal is never to totally stop her cheating. Morality, normality and stability are not our goals and we should not pursue them. Squeezing as much of the hot sex from her at the cost of as little cheating as possible is the goal.

    Most normal men will have sex a few times with a narc girl and then dump her as her toxic personality appears. This crushes the narc girl and so she seeks us, the few codep guys who are looking for exactly what she can bring us. The semi-stablity we bring to her life provides her enough narcissistic security to survive the inevitable rejections that her secondary supplies threaten her with.

    So the only leverage we have, and it is not much, is to withdraw this stability, but from a position of strength. She knows we are trauma bonded but the more she is sure of this, the more freedom she has to exploit it. Our only play is to be strategically seeding doubt about our stability. This will not stop cheating but it will at least drive it underground, where hopefully we remain blissfully ignorant of the particulars, while always fully aware in general that it is bound to happen. Seeding this insecurity must not just be reactive to her bad behavior, we must at times take the initiative as well.

    So taking her to couples counselling is not only obviously hopeless in terms of changing her (after all, we want her damaged the way she is) but it is counterproductive to our larger goals. Couples counselling is signaling our willingness to provide her with security, basically for free. With our front secure, she is free to hunt secondary supply. She even gets supply out of knowing the hurt we go through as she flaunts her sexual power. And when she gets dumped by secondaries, she will give us a few scraps of moderate love bombing to heal her pain.

    From our point of view, we must never allow the narc girl to feel secure on her codep front. This is easier said than done. We can’t threaten to dump her every day . Like the boy who called wolf we will soon get called out. Be that as it may, we must create tension about our security. Done convincingly, this tension draws lovebombing energy towards us in an attempt to resolve it. We must accept leaving her field fallow from time to time. Yes, she will be getting plowed but she will soon get dumped. The price for our return has to be as steep as possible. Once the lovebombing restarts, any talk of security on our part must be manipulative. Only to give contrast to our attempts at creating instability.

    The cheating can be so corrosive to us that we must always be managing the strategic level of these relationships. Make her cheat as little and as hidden as possible. Make the most of the destabilizing opportunities that arrive when she gets caught. Don’t manage her cheating. Act dumb until the point arrives where she flaunts it too much and you are a strong position for a destabilizing counterattack. Always stay “meta”, don’t delve into her word salad details of what constitutes cheating. Make intense lovebombing the only way to bring you back into the fold.

    All this assumes of course that you have followed rule number one: never get into a state of dependence (marriage, children, cohabitation) with a narc girl. It will be her desire to cross these boundaries that will keep the lovebombing flowing so always keep the appearance of the door open. But just as soon as any of these boundaries are breached, the lovebombing stops and codep guy is dead meat.

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